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| Clueless about sunburst finishes... http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=3295 |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:16 am ] |
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Well folks, I'm almost to the point of starting to spray my resonator guitar, but am thinking about doing a burst on it. One problem...I'm completely clueless. How is it done? Do you use the same color at different strengths? Do you stain the wood or apply the color over the sealer? How many coats? Does anyone apply a burst by hand? I don't want to cover the grain, just add some tone to it, so how should I proceed? Speak O Fountains of Wisdom....I will listen. 
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| Author: | John How [ Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:27 am ] |
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I have done a few bursts and there are many ways to do it. This one is a lacquer finish. I sprayed the sunburst colors starting with a yellow toner then reddish and finaly black, with an airbrush directly onto the wood using water soluable dyes because they are lightfast. Then I sprayed several coats of lacquer on without sanding to seal that so I wouldn't sand into the color. After it was sufficiently sealed I sanded and completed the finish. Some put the color into the finish medium and do the sunburst in the first few coats finishing with clear. If you are just looking to shade the edges, this is probably the easiest method. I like spraying the waterbased stuff directly onto the wood because is looks more natural to me especially when you don't completely block the grain. If you spray on the wood though, you need to use a finish that won't leech the colors, which is why I used water stains under lacquer.   |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:42 am ] |
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The way I did a Tobacco Burst was all in the finish. first coat total top with a trasparent amber die. Then the fadded dark edges with increasing the amount of second color dye (Dark brown). decreasing the with of the spray around the tops edges as it gets darker. This took 4 spray sessinions filling the middle with clear as I went. I used 4 guns, one with clear, one with amber, one with very transparent brown and one with a near but not opaqe brown mix. I got to tell you It was a pain but worked well once I got the process down. It is the build up if the Dark Brown that is tricky. Very cool when complete. |
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| Author: | csullivan [ Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:19 am ] |
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Don, if you need to borrow an air brush, I have one you can borrow that's just the right size for doing sunbursts. I'll bring it with me Sunday. Craig |
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| Author: | Bobc [ Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:30 am ] |
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Don I do it much the way John does. I use an airbrush because it gives great control. One thing I do differant is I use Targets WB shellac as a medium tinted with Trans Tint dye. Amber base then the other colors are up to you. Also spray from inside out towards the edge. Try to blend the colors. You don't want a line deliniating the various shades. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:37 am ] |
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I should have stated that with the exseption of amber and clear I used small auto detail guns for tight control. If I do it again I will use air brushes as well. They would have made control of the dark brown much easier. |
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| Author: | Mark Swanson [ Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:53 am ] |
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There is another thread still on this board about doing it, I think...check that one too, Don. There's some good info there. these folks are giving you the right advice! I do it by tinting the lacquer. I like the color in the finish. I use the powdered tints I get from Stew-Mac, they melt in alcohol and mix with lacquer. A couple of things not yet mentioned, the ratio of tint to clear is important. you want it rich enough to color the finish, but not so rich that color builds too fast. if you have it slightly thinner, it will be easier to build the color slowly and get a real deep color with a good blend. If you have too much color, then color will build too fast and it's easy to make a mistake, or get color where you don't want it. ALSO- very important- you CAN'T have any runs! While a run in clear can be dealt with, a run with the color in the finish and you are royally screwed. If you get a run in a water-based color coat, it will soak into the wood and be hard to get out, but if you get a run in a lacquer color coat, it's easier to get it off as it doesn't soak into the wood. I seal the guitar with shellac first, before any color...then I put down the amber, and then the dark color, and LAST I do the red, over ALL of the dark and bleeding into the amber a bit. The red going on last adds a nice tint to the dark brown. Mix the red very thin. A very little goes a long way. Whatever color you use, make sure that you use a tint, and not a solid or opaque color as that will cover the wood, while a tint will show the grain through. |
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| Author: | Wade Sylvester [ Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:09 am ] |
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It looks as though you would install your bindings after the color stages to have them un-affected. Would you have the channels cut before you do your coloring? Thanks, Wade |
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| Author: | stan thomison [ Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:18 am ] |
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Don I do it as some and that is I put the tint in the finish for the bottom (say the amber or whatever) then I use black finish on the edge or however far going in on top of the main body coat. Seems to work ok for me, but I am not an expert by any means |
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| Author: | Bobc [ Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:19 am ] |
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Wade I use 3M narrow masking tape and mask the bindings. One thing to note is you have to take care not to build too much at the tape thus creating a ledge. |
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| Author: | John How [ Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:20 am ] |
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In every burst I have done, I build the guitar just like any other and bind before finishing. It would be extremely difficult or impossible to bind the guitar after color without scuffing the color. If you use plastic binding, you can simply scrape the finish off with a razor blade. If you use wooden binding, you may have to mask the binding but you should probably seal the binding before any color is applied, then you could scrape the color off the binding just as you would plastic. |
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:26 am ] |
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Another way to do it is to rub dyes into the bare wood, then finish. This gives a bit different look that the sprayed one. If not done right it can look splotchy, but done well I think it gives a more subtle, interesting soft 'burst. I use liquid aniline dyes mixed with alcohol. The way I do it is to first rub vintage amber over the whole instrument, then medium brown around the edges, and last tobacco brown or dark brown on the very edges and corners. You can use alcohol to wipe the whole surface to blend the colors and take some of them off, but not too much or you can get uncolored spots, runs and all kinds or trouble. The dyes will soak up more in endgrain than elsewhere, which helps to pop the figure. Here's a mando I did a couple of years ago: 
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| Author: | npalen [ Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:54 am ] |
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I've never tried spraying a sunburst with anything smaller than a regular HVLP gravity with 1.5MM nozzle. I feel that the large spray pattern gives a good transition between colors. Too much control may not be a good thing? YMMV Nelson |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Thu Sep 22, 2005 6:39 am ] |
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All interesting stuff. Arnt, that looks really nice. I really want a *subtle* burst, and I plan to keep it very light. I know that Kim Walker hand-applies his bursts similar to that. I think they are really nice. My object is to not hide the grain with a very dark edge, but keep the grain popping through. Why hide all that flame? I'll be binding in ivoroid, so it sounds like I should seal it all, then spray or rub on the colors, and then scrape the bindings afterward, right? I'm leaning toward the Vintage Maple Trans-tint for the darkest color. Thanks all... |
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:26 am ] |
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If you rub, don't seal at all, just wipe the colors on the bare wood and let it be absorbed. Like I said, this helps to enhance the figure. |
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